Category — Flamenco Singer Manuel Oliver
Translator’s note: Here is another translation of an interview with a flamenco artist. In this case, the artist was an important representative of the Triana school of singing — but not the Gypsy side of it. Instead, he represents the non-Gypsy aspect of flamenco song. His name is Manuel Oliver, and he was interviewed in a 1986 issue of Sevilla Flamenca by M. Herrera Rodas.
Triana, of course, is just across the Guadalquivir river from Seville. It’s noted primarily for the Gypsy singers who were there in the early years of flamenco (the Gypsies in particular were largely forced out, relocated to the Poligonos by the 1960′s). But Triana was also the home base for an interesting nucleus of non-Gypsy singers. Here’s the story:
[The interviewer writes]: “If Triana is just a memory, it’s because of a lack of sensibility on the part of many in the government; their thoughtlessness caused an exodus, as we know, and one that cannot be remedied. But there was one saving grace. The Hotel de Triana — not an actual hotel, but a “casa de vecinos” or house for neighbors, built in the first quarter of the Twentieth Century and slated for demolition, was rescued by Mayor Uruñuela. He in turn was influenced by José Luís Ortiz Nuevo, the key figure behind the Bienal Flamenco de Sevilla, who fought to preserve the place. Now the Hotel de Triana is a key part of the Bienal — Ortiz Nuevo was married there to Ana María, and Seville has retained a part of itself.
And in the Hotel de Triana, on the second floor, there’s a man who is a living example of the Triana that resisted demolition, and kept singing, and holds a thousand anecdotes. He is Manuel Oliver Dorado, and he has lived here for 16 years, sharing with his wife Dolores Sánchez a little two-room apartment that holds many memories, and many sorrows. A grave illness left him very wasted away (mermado), but he has recovered perfectly. But there was no real recovery from the loss of the couple’s son Antonio five years ago. They had five children, and now only Felix survives. But the absence of Antonio still brings tears to the tired eyes of these venerable elders.
A simple homage, rendered on the part of the friends of the Mesón “Las Cigarreras” at exactly the place where (the singer) Antonio el Arenero had his “rincón” or special spot, let us share the memories of Manuel Oliver about Triana from the beginning of our century. But because his afición for the cante and his love for Triana were so strong, his knowledge of Triana (Seville is right across the river) go back to the last decades of the previous century, because Manuel can also reveal the memories of his late father, of Malino, of all the old folks who were in Triana and who taught Manuel the cante and the life of the pueblo.
Despite his eighty years, Manuel is in fine shape, short and straight, solid and elegantly dressed. But his lively eyes leave a sense of permanent sadness, of pain not overcome. There seems to be a grasping of the cante as a means to express his anguish and his sorrows.
We’ve arrived at his hous and are seated at a table for a long chat. It’s mid-afternoon, and the sun is behind some dark clouds, leaving a chill in the air.
– “I was born on Castilla Street, in a “corral de vecinos“, on October 14, 1906. I was baptized in Santa Ana, the church where all of Triana’s great artists were baptized — not just singers, but dancers, and the best bullfighters.
One of my best friends was Antonio Ballesteros, may he rest in peace, who sang soleares and siguiriyas that could make you lose your mind. Then there was the brother Joaquinito, younger, who also sang. I heard the father of Arenero…but above all, I listened to my father, who sang very well, and with him and his friends — such as Pepe el de la Matrona, Paco Reyes, el Cartujano and Moralito — I learned my first cantes. I knew when I’d find them singing, and the ‘bronca‘ — the juerga — lasted until the early morning. It ended when they’d spent the all the money they had won at cards. This was when I was eight or ten.
I never went to school. Well, my father got a private teacher who’d teach kids at their homes. I didn’t go to colegio (primary school) because my father didn’t want us to. He had goats and a milk stand on Mateos Gago street. At mid-day, he’d go there. There was a big colegio there, with a first and second floor. And one day it collapsed, killing more than two hundred kids.
Incredible! More than 90 years ago. And after that, my father said “My kids aren’t going to colegio“.
I was one of seven kids, and my father Manuel was from Castilleja, right beside Triana, but my mother was Trianera, though her father came from Cantillana. My maternal grandfather was a picador, and worked with famous toreros like Espartero, the Bombitas, Pasadas, El Guerra and others. My father worked in La Cartuja (presumably the ceramic works at the monastery site that would become Expo ’92) from childhood. He met my mother there when she was fourteen, and they left to get married when my father became 27.”
The Interviewer writes: “In its socio-cultural aspect as well, Triana has continued to lose the privileged status it had in the first decade of this century. Today in Triana, which was the cradle of ceramic-working (alfarería=pottery) there are no longer establishments that make unglazed (sin vidriar) pieces. There are, though, a few workshops that survived the crisis that hit the sector after the Seville Exposition of 1929 (and what an opportunity, as 1992 approaches, to support one of the most beautiful crafts in Andalusia’s rich culture), and survived the hardships of the postwar era and the years of emigration and the material decay of Triana. These workshops that still exist, and other that appear, are starting to dust off ancient models, designs, colors and forms that flourished in the Eighteenth Century and that have their roots in the Arab ceramic workshops that were found in much of Andalusia during the occupation.
We speak of these things with Manuel Oliver, and he notes that it was an Englishman, Don Carlos Pickman, who built the Cartujan monastery of Santa María de las Cuevas, on the banks of the Guadalquivir just north of Triana, in 1841, to make English-style China in Seville. We ask if La Cartuja has changed much.
–”Ojú! Todo! I went to La Cartuja, to the new factory, with Rafael Belmonte, brother of (the great bullfighter) Juan Belmonte, who was born here on Castilla street. And it’s almost totally different. Do you know what it was like to see those women who came to work at La Cartuja, with their mantones (shawls) de Manila and their little handbaskets…Those lovely women, with that grace that they had in Triana… It was the same thing as at the big Tobacco Factory (where the fictional Carmen worked)… What a time!
Five or six hundred women, working at La Cartuja — it was really somethingto see them go in!
But there was alfarería and cerámica all over Triana. There was Corbato, now Santa Ana. And Montalban, who died. And the workshop of Ramos, Rejano who painted best of all, and Manolito Pestana…
I wasn’t an alfarero, though. But I had a brick factory on Tejares Street, where I grew up and have lived most of my life. I’ve worked many jobs, everything I could. With the goats of my father. I’d go from here to the Vega de Triana and El Barrero, to the fields of Castilleja to let them graze.
But when I was twelve, my mother got me a job in a carpentry shop, working the saws. And I stayed there till the war (1936), when they called me up for the cavalry. And I was so fed up with being shut up in a room and working eight to ten hours every day filing saws and cutting wood without seeing the light or the sky or the fields, that I went off to a tile-works that my father had. I’d go for the clay, and do all kinds of work.
Near Cartuja was the venta (roadside inn) called El Vela, and (the legendary Gypsy singers) Manuel Torre and La Niña de los Peines would often go there to sing. Because Pastora (Pavón — La Niña de los Peines), when she came back from tours, came here to Triana. My father and mother told me that she came here when she was a little girl, wearing lots of peines (combs) in her hair, which is how she got her name. She came to the house of Baldomera. There’d be lots of people from Extremadura and some small towns there, and an uncle of Pastora’s lived at 130 Castilla street, in the Corral de la Higuerita. She’d come here with her mother. And at night, she’d go there and sing four tanguitos (a diminutive word for the flamenco tangos) and four (other) things, to earn two pesetas! Pastora sang the tangos de Triana. She was the only one left who did the tangos de Triana, because today everybody says ”tangos-tientos” –that’s a lie! The tientos never existed — it’s just that the tango has a difficult rhythm (un ritmo difícil); and the singers didn’t know how to enter (start) into it. The rhythm of Cádiz has never been lost! The tangos of Cádiz are distinct in their rhythm from those of Triana. Triana has a rhythm that nobody knows how to get into; Naranjo (Naranjito de Triana?) does an aire de Triana in this…
My early contacts with cante? I remember hearing cante in public the first time, when my father took me to the chapel of the Marineros, where the Esperanza is now. There was a salon de cante there, and someone called El Chato de Madrid was singing a malagueña that drove people wild. I started singing when I listened to my father. And the first time I sang in public was when my cousing Antonio “El Penitente” got married in the Corral of Valladares Street. Everybody sang there. I sang the fandangos that were so popular in Triana then:
Aunque el rio llegue a Palmay
s’ahoguen los palmeros,
en no ahogandote tu
que s’ahogue el mundo entero.
I also remember that in the baptism of a cousin (prima mia), I heard Currito el de la Geroma sing a soleá that stripped your senses, but he didn’t sing the soleá de Triana — be careful, now! — to sing por Triana, (in the true Triana style), well, there’s a crack in the bridge and you have to cross over it… Currito sang the Gypsy soleá instead (“el cante gitano por soleá, mas bien!”)
Currito was a singer, but then he got tuberculosis and to earn a living he took up the guitar. He went to Charco la Pava, on the road to San Juan (de Aznalfarche?) and sought his livelihood. And my uncle and father let me sing after him, and I did the soleares in my own way, those of Triana, naturally. And Currito hugged me, and there was a big outburst and hubbub (alboroto).
When I was young I sang with lots of artists. El Sordillo, Emilio Abadia. I’ll tell you something. El Sordillo sang very well, but the cante wasn’t his — it was Emilio’s. Because El Sordillo was from Velez-Malaga, and since he sang very well, he picked up the cantes de Triana here — but he learned them from Emilio Abadia. And Emilio was a phenomenal singer. He did the verse that El Zapatero does now:
Coge, Maria, a este niña
y llevatelo a la muralla,
dale un sorbito de teta
veras como te se calle.
Although El Sordillo, because he didn’t have Emilio’s power, did it lower and lo mesia (?) more. Emilio was the nephew of Fernando el de Triana (a noted Triana singer who wrote one of the first books about flamenco). Fernando died in Camas (near Triana) because when he retired he started a little tavern there, where I heard him sing a few times. He sang so well. I also often heard Pepe el de la Matrona — another genius, though he wasn’t from Triana but from Seville. His mother came to live in the Corral de los Judiíos, the house here Rafael (Rafael el Negro) and Matilde (Matilde Coral) now have their dance academy. Pepe Matrona’s mother was contracted by the Ayuntamiento (Municipal hall) to sell food in the Patrocinio…and so she came to live in Triana and Pepe, who was a good aficionado, made himself a singer here, with Fernando, and Vigil, and Ramón el Ollero.
My father said that Ramón el Ollero was the best in Spain for singing the soleá. His work was making excavations (hoyos=holes; “ollero“=holemaker) in Alfarería Street. He had phenomenal force as a singer, a very potent voice. And he’d do the cante ligandolo — singing the lines in one sweep (ligado=tied), de un tirón (all at once). My father said he would do this entire soleá without drawing a breath:
Capilla del Carmen.
Aunque vayas tu y te metas
en la Capilla del Caren,
tu de mis unas no te escapas.
M’has hecho un agravio mu grande,
aunque tu vayas y te metas
en la Capilla del Carmen.
But just as he’d do that long cante for you, he’d also do a short one (un cantecito corto):
Que me s’importara a mi
qu’haya tan buenos doctores
si me tengo que morir.
(What does it matter to me/ that there are such good doctors/ if I have to die.)
It was from this fountain, and from Enrique Vigil, that Pepe el de la Matrona would drink when he came to Triana.
Ramón also sang siguiriyas to drive you mad (pa rabiar), and for this reason my father said that Ramón had a grandeur (grandeza) in the cante. And there was El Pancho, and Moralito. Moralito had a short little cante, that I often sing. Like this:
(Do you remember back when/ you’d come running to see me/ and now you don’t even know me.)
In this cante, like all those of Triana, the good part (lo bueno) is in the low parts (los bajos). And those low parts are what El Pancho had. He would say:
No te compro mas camisas,
yo no visto mas altares
pa que otro diga misa
(I’m not buying you any more shirts;/ I won’t cover any more altars/ so that others can say mass on them.)
Well, although the good part is in the low tones, the truth is that everyone does the cantes in their own way. El Sordillo did the cantes one way, and Joaquín Castillares, who was the best in Triana for singing El Pancho’s songs, did them another way. And Emilio Abadia, well I sometimes do the same verses (letras) as Emilio and yet I adapt them to my music, and el Pili did it another way. And Miguelillo el de la Cerveza…
No, I never knew the Caganchos (a famous Gypsy family of flamencos and bullfighters, of Triana). Well, I know the father of the bullfighter, who was also named Manuel Cagancho, and was the son of the famous singer Cagancho. He was the best at singing the Gypsy cantes of Triana. That’s what my father told me, and so did Vigil, Moralito, Fernando and El Malino.
Malino told me: “Look, Manuel, everyone is just wrong when it comes to the martinetes.” El Malino was an old man, and I was just fourteen, but I hung around with all the old folks. And I went to the house of Quilino, on Calle Pureza, and Malino drank two negros and I had coffee — I’ll soon be eighty-one and I have never taken a drink — well, Malino said that Cagancho’s martinetes were very short, and very pure. Nowadays, some martinetes are done very long and without flourishes (mu largos y sin florituras). El Malino said:
Ay, ay, cuando llegó la justicia
y mi casa arregistro
Mi compañero llorando
y yo metío en el colchón.
Then there was Garfias, who sang serranas better than anyone. He was a night watchman, and he’d sing softly (cantiñeaba), and people would listen at their balconies, because he sang so well. He did this verse:
De mi serrana
que vale mas la peineta
de mi serrana
que la recua de mulas
You have to keep going lower at the end, going lower — and not shouting. And there was the father of Arenero, also called Antonio, who sang mu gracioso por malagueñas, por soleá, por siguiriyas…An extraordinary man.
We went to fiesta and he sang for six days. And didn’t want anyone else getting into it. He started out as a sand-carrier for Manolito Malaarma, in el Barranco, with a team of burros. And Domingo el Afarero — the strangest man in the world. He had an extraordinary voice. He’s two years older than me, and sings very purely and very well, but he’s very odd (raro) and so it’s hard to hear him sing.
[The interviewer writes: “Manuel tells more stories of singers, and we gather that Gypsies and payos (non-Gypsies) lived in close contact in a unique and exemplary way (en una convivencia única y exemplar)“]
Oliver: “There were two “cavas” (areas) in Triana, that of the “civiles“ (non-Gypsies) and that of the Gypsies. The Cava de los Civiles ran from San Jacinto (bridge) to here, up to Coheteria Street and San Vicente de Padua. That of the gitanos ended at the Camaronero Bridge, at the Calle Betis, where there was a factory.”
Int: “How was the convivencia (relationship) in Triana among payos and gitanos?”
“Superior! Here we were all equals. Now my father told me that two verses he knew in the soleá referred to the fact that on one occasion there were also problems. Like these letras:
En la capilla del Carmen
mataron a Taravita
!Como lloraba su madre!
“In the Chapel of Carmen
they killed Tavarita;
How his mother wept!”
That’s the little story of a very “apañao” (resourceful) young man, who gave orders to everybody and who was killed by a Gypsy who came over the bridge, drunk. The Chapel of Carmen wasn’t where it is now, but where the big bank is today. Well, that event made the public rise up. And that’s seen in this other verse from soleá:
En el barrio de Triana
unos se tiran al rio
y otros llaman la guardia.
(In the barrio of Triana,
some threw themselves in the river,
and others called for the police.)
But we ourselves got along very well. Like brothers. The best gitanos in all of Spain are those of Triana. And the hardest working. They work mostly in their forges, though they are also butchers (almost all the butchers in the plaza are gitanos), or they were mule-skinners (o pelaban borricos) like Rufino, the father of La Concepción…”
[The interviewer writes]: We find ourselves lost in a labyrinth of names and dates that Manuel Oliver gives us. He is a bank of details for a history of his barrio, a Triana that remains to be studied in many of its aspects. We have to get back to the realm of cante.
Int: What were the cantes of Triana?
Oliver: These: The soleá; the siguiriya of Sr. Manuel Cagancho, which is a short siguiriya; the martinetes and the toná. The toná almost ties itself to one another (is sung in a run-on way?) (La toná casi se liga una con la otra). And the tangos. And on the stones of Triana a mountain of artists have walked, like Loco Mateo, Manuel Torre, La Rubia, El Canario — they’ve all passed through here.”
Int: “What’s the right term (for the non-Gypsy soleá of Triana): the soleá alfarera or the soleá del Zurraque?”
Oliver: “It’s the soleá de Triana. Because the soleá was sung by alfareros, and also by carpenters and masons — so it should be called the soleá de Triana.”
Int: “But it’s not the same soleá de Triana as the one the Gypsies do, is it?”
Oliver: “Of course, the Gypsies do a soleá with more compás (rhythm), but they don’t have the sweet voice (voz dulce) to be able to do the soleá de Triana that we do on this side, because their ecos (sound qualities) are different (distintos). Look, not even Antonio Mairena could do the songs of this crazy thing that is our soleá!”
Int: “Hombre! [Do you know what you're saying??] Antonio Mairena!”
Oliver: “No, not even Antonio. It was because of the eco, the voice, because the soleá de Triana that we do demands a sweeter voice. Because the voice of the gitano is not like that of the payo.”
Int: “Let’s leave the abstract for the concrete — you yourself. What is your cante?”
Oliver: “I sing a little cante (cantecito) por solea de Ramón (el Ollero) that I heard my father sing. I also do a cante of La Gómez de Triana, called La Niña de la Gómez, who sang so you lost your senses. I do six or seven variations of cante por soleá. Of course, I do them in my own manner, with my music. The same as Emilio Abadia, for example, who put his thing into his music, well, I’ve put mine. It’s my music, and my way of vocalizing it. I adopt it to what I’ve heard.”
Int: “What is the cante, Manuel?”
Oliver: Ojú — a poison (un veneno). And those whom it enters “se vuelve majara“, (are driven mad, go crazy — majara is the caló word for crazy) like me.”
Int: “Why do you sing?”
Oliver: “To express feelings. To express happiness, or sorrow. Because one can sing from grief. That’s why the letra says:
!Que culpita tengo yo
que los ojos no me lloren
si me llora el corazon!
“You cannot fault me
if my eyes don’t cry,
if my heart does.”
Int: “Manuel, is there a special form of being from Triana. Is there a different philosophy of life? A feeling of freedom, the fruit of its age and the wisdom of the people, as reflected in the verse of Antonio el Arenero…
Los serenos de Triana
van diciendo por la calle
que duerma el que tenga sueno
que yo no despierto a nadie”.
(The night watchmen of Triana
say in the street,
let anyone who’s tired go to sleep;
I won’t awaken anyone.)
Oliver: “Yes, it was like that — that’s what the night watchman Garfia sang, the one I mentioned before. He sang in the streets and everyone listened…”
Int: “What’s the best place to perform or listen to cante?”
Oliver: “The best place is a little room with eight or ten friends who know the cante and know how to listen. That’s where I’m at my best and happiest.”
Int: “Where do you think the cante is headed?”
Oliver: “I see it as becoming adulterated and so it seems to be going badly.”
Int: “Who’s adulterating it?”
Oliver: “Well, almost everyone (Pues, casi tos). Eighty percent of the artists today, instead of learning to sing, just “pegar voces” (shout). For that reason, I don’t want to hear anyone sing these days. Who would I listen to?”
Int: “To Camarón, for example!”
Oliver: “A phenomenon, but he still doesn’t know how to sing beside the people I’ve heard. Because I’ve had the “misfortune” to hear La Moreno, La Cochinita, Piripi, Vallejo, Nino Gloria, his sisters, La Pompi. All those people who could sing bulerías to drive you wild (pa rabiar). And La Moreno was better than all of them put together! In the bulerías por soleá, she was unique. El Almendro learned from her, the primo hermano (first cousin?) of (the great Gypsy torero) Rafael el Gallo and a banderillero; and when he got drunk, he’d call La Moreno to the fiestas, and then El Caracol (Manolo Caracol) learned from Almendro. Once, I remember that we went to La Europa, to the (famous flamenco cafe) Siete Puertas, with El Monge, Antoñito Ballesteros, Fernando Bellido…and La Moreno, who lived here, said “Now my children are here.” There was Tomás (Pavón); Rebollo, Gloria, La Cochinita — Antonio Ballesteros managed the money to invite all those people.”
Int: “Manuel Torre?”
Oliver: “A genius. He sang only when he wanted to. He was a monster in siguiriyas.”
Int: “El Gloria?”
Oliver: “Mucho fuelle (fuelle=bellows) — lots of lung power. He sang very well por bulerías, and bulerías por soleá. And he left his mark on the fandango, and por saetas.”
Oliver: “El Carbonero sang por soleá, very tranquil, very well. Soleá gitana.”
Int: “We’ve already spoken of La Moreno.”
Oliver: “Por fiesta (bulerías), a genius. And her bulerías por soleá was better than anyone’s.”
Oliver: “The best in bulerías, and in granainas”
Int: “Pepe Marchena?”
Oliver: “Very sweet — exquisite. And as an artist, the best. The most decent of all, in the tablaos.”
Int: “Jose Rebollo?”
Oliver: “He specialized in the fandangos de Huelva, and I liked him more than anyone in that style. Rangel (Antonio Rengel) did some very valientes (bravura) fandangos. But Rebollo had an eco that worked perfectly.”
Oliver: “Another genius. I already said that she was the only one who could do the tangos de Triana. Because she grew up here, and like all the girls of that time, like my mother as well, they danced and sang por tangos. And Pastora was a genius in this. And in everything she did. She also did the cantes de columpío that are now called bamberas (swing songs, from the countryside).”
Int: “Tomás Pavón?”
Oliver: “Tomás did all the cantes de Triana, very well. A phenomenon. The siguiriyas and the soleares gitanas. He often listened to Ramon el Ollero, and everyone from here. And his martinetes… Here people also sang the carceleras, that Colchero sang for me in the days of the first Republic, the martinete por carceleras. Because the carcelera is a cante like the martinete, but shorter (más corto)…
Me sacaron de la carcel
a caritas destemplas
me llevan de conducción
a bayoneta cala.”
Int: “Tell us about the dance…”
Oliver. I had the luck to know Ramírez. He danced in the Novedades that was in La Campana, by Vallasis. I went there to see Ramírez, La Malena, La Sorda, La Macarrona… Ramírez was the dancer who had the finest postura (posture, stance) of all. From the waist up, his stance was enormous. His feet (patas) were just right. Then Niño Bilbao came in, who could smash the boards with his footwork but had no art at all. To dance properly, you have to do what Rafael el Negro does. What a stance (Que planta de bailaor!). And what art in his dancing! For me, Rafael el Negro is the best dancer that Triana has seen in all its history.
Oh, and I also saw Carmen Amaya. I’d go see her during a two-month stay when she danced in the Novedades on Trajano street, when she came with her father and her brother.”
Int: “And the guitar?”
Oliver: “For guitar, I remember Niño Ricardo who was really a special case (que era un fuera de serie), a phenomenon. I also knew Borrull, and had the good fortune of having him play for me one night in Triana. Miguel Borrull was Catalan, but a Gypsy, and he played in such a way…”
Int: “Manolo de Huelva?”
Oliver: “Him, too, of course. The last thing that Manuel recorded, he recorded with me here in Los Remedios, in the house of a woman who was a millionaire [this would be Virginia de Zayas, whose husband Marius recorded Ramón Montoya's solos in Paris in the late 1930's. Articles by Mrs. de Zayas appear elsewhere in this blog]. And Manuel came to play there every day. He told me that all the singers had already passed through there. And he called me, and I sang por soleá. I remember that I was singing and he stopped me to say “That’s the soleá of La Serneta; where did you learn it?”. And I said, “Well, right here in Triana”. I had sung this letra:
Sale el sol cuando es de día
para me sale de noche.
Hasta el sol esta en contra mia.
(The sun comes out in the daytime;
for me, it comes out at night.
Even the sun is against me.)
Anyway, I sang por siguiriyas, por soleá, por martinetes, and then I told him: “Now I’m going to sing something from your pueblo”. He told me that to sing (the fandangos de Huelva) properly it had to be properly squared off (cuadrao). I said I’d do what I could. And I did the fandangos of Rangel that I loved, and when I finished he said to my cousin, the priest, “Father, this guy even sings the fandangos of my pueblo squared away perfectly.”
Int: “Ramon Montoya?”
Oliver: “Another genius. I heard him several times here in Seville.”
Oliver: “Yes, there was another guitarist called Antonio el Correor who had 22 guitars. He lived on San Eloy, and he was visited by Ricardo, Borrull, Sabicas — and he was the best player!” And on La Alameda there was Eduardo el de la Malena who has the school of Niño Ricardo. And a player of my age, Manuel Carmona, of Los Palacios, who accompanied me when I made that program for television. And he’s a very good player. What I like is smoothness (el suavito) in playing, because the cante of Triana is very ligao (linked together) and there can’t be a lot of fanciness (florituras) on the guitar. Nowadays, all the guitarists want to do is run their hands… and that’s not it!”
[The interviewer writes:] It is nighttime. We’ve spent many hours talking, while the recorder has consumed many reels of tape, and we — Paco Celaya and I — have made good use of the coffee that Dolores made for us. Seated at this table, we have followed Manuel through all of Triana, and many years of experience and living, of people and songs. We had asked little, but we knew much more about Triana because Manuel Oliver is an experience that never ceases to relate stories. He is a fount that satiates our thirst to know.
One of the soleá verses he sings seems to fit:
No te mates por saber
que el tiempo te lo dira
que no hay cosa mas bonita
que el saber sin preguntar.
(Don’t kill yourself trying to know –
time will tell you;
there is nothing lovelier
than knowing without asking.)
Thank you, Manuel, for the things we now know about Triana and for the time – the time of your eighty years, and the time of your father’s years before that, and that of all the old people of Triana, reunited in your experience. Here around this little table you have shown us so much, and your coffee is delicious — your drink of choice for a lifetime.”
End of interview by M. Oliver by M. Herrera Rodas, in Sevilla Flamenca number 46 of December, 1986.
October 25, 2011 No Comments